spo0nman: Impatient Aspirers

Pankaj Kaushal (

spo0nman) wrote,
@ 2008-03-09 23:56:00

Current mood:	anxious
Entry tags:	aspirers, dilemma, finance, impatient, money, question, spendthrift, talk

Impatient Aspirers
Hello,

I've heard the term "Impatient Aspirers", used a lot, it means the 20 somethings who have a lot of income and practically no responsibilities. Well! I fall in the same category. Everyone keeps telling me how I spend too much, and of-late I've been thinking that maybe I do spend a lot of money needlessly. So, I undertook an assignment. To document all the money I spend.

Now my intention was to document it and analyze it to understand if I spend needlessly and if I could stop it, not that I want to save money or anything, but, to stop myself from giving someone money they don't deserve. I have a very different understanding of money, it goes like this, I work very hard for the money that I earn, so, it's only natural that I would like to give it to someone who works as hard as me. Selling a sweetened soda for 125 Rs is not hard work, it's called ripping people off. I'd not like to be ripped off.

When I did actually document my spendings of the first ten days of march, the sum surprised even me. The amount in question can easily provide food for 20 people for an entire month. I looked at the amount of money I spent in ten days and realized that I have a problem. I wanted to document this and publish it.

I want to reduce my spendings by 50% in the next week and 80% then next week. I will also document April and see if I did any better.

Now, before I do this; I want a question to be answered. When I talk about something like this, spending so much money, it is indeed disturbing but, at the same time implies (it could be understood as such) that I HAVE that kind of money to spend.

So the question is, should I make the real spendings and real data available to the public?

(Post a new comment)

	spo0nman 2008-03-09 06:55 pm UTC (link)
	And I don't invest a single paisa more that it requires me to get off the hook from paying taxes. (Reply to this)(Thread)

abdulqabiz
2008-03-09 07:23 pm UTC (link)

It's good idea to look at cash-flow and do what you doing right now. I want to achieve a total freedom, where I don't have to work for money, where I can do whatever I want to do without thinking about paying bills etc.

This desire was for there for long time, I was never in afraid of making less or more money, hence been switching jobs on lower or higher packages for good things (investment in myself).

Now I have realized, investments are important, I am not talking about investment to save tax, but there is nothing wrong with that, considering how Govt is trying to extract most of things from us (tax payers). Having said that, so far I never focussed on any such investments, hence nothing as of now.

I am talking about investments (financially or time wise) in things that would generate money for you. Money is important and it would help you doing right things, probably helping deserved, poor or achieving you things you wanted (want) to do.

I am gonna invest into such things (startups, funds, skills, etc) so I can achieve that freedom which would allow me to use my time better ways to do better things for me, family and humanity.

Saving is important but more than it the required-attitude is important.

I would not buy a soda or something from a multiplex/airport because I don't want to feel guilty of doing wrong (paying more than MRP and spending money like this) even after I tried to argue for rules, laws, etc - nothing works now, I don't have time to pursue the case, file a case in court, etc. Probably later in life, I might work on it :-)

Thanks for your post, does help me think more about it.

-abdul

(Reply to this)(Parent)

hitesh
2008-03-09 07:05 pm UTC (link)

Interesting but my question what suddenly happened to have this line of thought?

Anyway, I am not sure if forcefully thinking about things you should not splurge on and not spending on things is the good way to do it. The point of working and earning is you should allow be able to "spoil" yourself whenever you want to - for someone else it may be wasting money, for you it won't be. Also, you could end up setting yourself up for absurd goals like you cannot afford dinner at a decent place because you reached your daily limit by spending too much on lunch.

Artificially cutting down your disposable income and then spending it without thinking of whether you can afford to or want to spend it on something particular gives you some freedom - albeit only a bit more anyway. Of course this approach requires you to limit yourself and learn how to manage on the smaller amount of money even though you know that there is an extra tempting pile of money to fall back on.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

bluesmoon
2008-03-10 03:33 am UTC (link)

it's not about spoiling oneself, it's about giving money to people who don't deserve it. It's also the reason why I don't eat at Subway or Pizza Hut, but I don't mind a good expensive meal at the Oberoi with the right company. The Oberoi has gone to some expense to create an atmosphere where a couple can feel comfortable and talk about anything without a crowd overshadowing your words.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

code_martial
2008-03-11 08:28 am UTC (link)

I disagree with the comment on Subway. Out of all the popular fast-food joints, I think they offer the best value for money. Value in terms of food that won't bloat you up like a balloon if you have it for dinner every other evening. Besides, you can't judge the hard work or lack thereof by just looking at what it takes to assemble a sub. I don't remember the last time I ate at Pizza Hut. They comprehensively suck.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	bluesmoon 2008-03-11 10:39 am UTC (link)
	the ingredients account for one twentieth of the cost. does the other 19/20th account for labour? Oh, and FYI, I suffered from food poisoning the very first time I went to Subway. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	code_martial 2008-03-11 11:55 am UTC (link)
	You forgot the cost of processing the ingredients, unless you're just talking about Veggie Delite. Besides, I don't remember finding better sandwiches for the same amount of cost anywhere else. Anyhow, this isn't yblr@ so let's just 'agree to disagree' on Subway ;-) (Reply to this)(Parent)

	sabiokap 2008-03-10 05:19 pm UTC (link)
	d00d! This is not about living like Philip. We are not talking about having a 35 bucks dinner budget. As I see it, it's about not blowing money up on totally useless stuff while using it prolly to buy a farmhouse in southern France. Going by the amounts we spend I may be exaggerating a bit about the farmhouse thing... am I? ;-) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	hitesh 2008-03-10 06:46 pm UTC (link)
	I was not even referring to Philip. I was just talking about how do you go about to trying to reduce your expenditure which Pankaj wants to do. Go down to 80% in less than 2 weeks without setting yourself some very rigid goals is going to be interesting to say the least. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	joylita 2008-03-09 09:23 pm UTC (link)
	If you want proposals from single women waiting to mooch off you, yeah why not?! No really, if you're not guilty about spending that much and you can afford it, is there a need to make it all public? What's the point here, anyway?! (Reply to this)(Thread)

spo0nman
2008-03-10 02:33 am UTC (link)

It's not about being guilty about spending money. Like I said, "I work hard to earn money." I guess a lot of us do. We all however, do not think before handing it out to someone who does not work hard for it. It's the prevalent theme in Bangalore, shit at exorbitant rates.

Why I want to make it public is, to set an example, maybe what you see in my bills will ring a bell, maybe they won't. maybe some reader will analyze his own spendings and we could come up with a detailed understanding as a collective.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

(Deleted post)

joylita
2008-03-10 08:31 am UTC (link)

We all however, do not think before handing it out to someone who does not work hard for it.

'Working hard' is such a relative term. When I would take auto rickshaws in Bangalore and they would charge me twice the rate to get from Garuda to Raj Bhavan at around 9 pm, even though I would argue I knew they had somewhat of a valid point: They wouldn't get any passengers back from Raj Bhavan to Garuda at 9 pm and they had to 'work hard' to earn their daily bread, too.

Selling a sweetened soda for 125 Rs is not hard work, it's called ripping people off. I'd not like to be ripped off.
We are not a country without choices.
And of course,if the beverage in question was good ol' filter coffee served at a fancy restaurant with a fancy enough sounding name attached to it making the whole deal upmarket-ish and pumped our nouveau rich egos to the size of hot air balloons, it wouldn't be so much of a rip-off, would it now?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	spo0nman 2008-03-11 06:49 am UTC (link)
	>Fancy restaurant with a fancy enough sounding name attached ... egos to the >size of hot air balloons, it wouldn't be so much of a rip-off, would it now? You obviously don't know me. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	purely_narcotic 2008-07-10 12:55 am UTC (link)
	I don't why I came back to this post but... You obviously don't know me. After all those exemplary moments of imbecility and stupidity, surely not :P (Reply to this)(Parent)

	sabiokap 2008-03-10 05:11 pm UTC (link)
	Setting an example and all... man! You don't need to set an example... I would rather suggest to jot down your experiences for a year (the way I am going to)... then write a book like Freakonomics and earn royalty money . I am serious... if you are not doing it then I will do it with my scrapbook of experiences. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	vinodpillai 2008-03-10 03:30 am UTC (link)
	money matters like prolly everything is subjective. Realizations or change is just in the end an outcome of, well boredom, or just a need of change from routine or something. It may last, might not, you may like it, you might not. Ahh but yes, figures are important, so to the question, I think you should make the exact figures visible! It'll be fun, best of luck! (Reply to this)

kingsly
2008-03-10 05:54 am UTC (link)

It can't be all about numbers and percentages. There is the matter of satisfaction/happiness that needs to be factored in.

I have had people telling me I spend too much from ~10 years ago to today when i make more money per day than I used make per month back then.

It's been a while since I did any detailed analysis, the last time while I did find expenses that I could have easily avoided, it did add to my overall state of happiness/well being.

Selling a sweetened soda for 125 Rs is not hard work, it's called ripping people off.

The sweetened soda seller feels the same way about the rate he was charged for his copy of the billing software :-p

It's a different matter if you don't like their food and refuse to give your business to someone, but claiming one won't eat at a Subway/Pizza Hut/pay more than MRP at a theatre is kind of "rich" coming from IT folks who make the kind of money they do only because their employers choose to bill their clients exorbitant rates.

If you *want* something and there is no alternative, you have no choice but to pay up if you can afford it. After all we can all eat at $deity-sagars around town and not go hungry and avoid all the fine-dining places altogether.

While I don't dispute the fact that some of us are working hard, there are others that work equally hard or much harder and get paid a pittance.(Think doctors,nurses,auto drivers,manual laborers.) If they started getting paid a decent salary, we'd have a lot less money to spend.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	kingsly 2008-03-10 06:05 am UTC (link)
	Forgot to say that the answer to your question is "no". Since it won't be of much use to most others. Unless you are looking for what joylita has predicted ;-) (Reply to this)(Parent)

	code_martial 2008-03-11 08:56 am UTC (link)
	It's a different matter if you don't like their food and refuse to give your business to someone, but claiming one won't eat at a Subway/Pizza Hut/pay more than MRP at a theatre is kind of "rich"... What's the difference, exactly? Is it the 'they don't work hard' line of reasoning that you somehow missed mentioning in the above sentence? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	kingsly 2008-03-11 10:02 am UTC (link)
	Yes that and the fact that you can't compare the price of a something at a shop that gives you "standing"/"walking" space vs having the same thing in an Air conditioned place with comfortable seating and other extra amenities and paying a whole lot of rent for a place which only attracts people during certain hours of the day and limited numbers at that. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

code_martial
2008-03-11 10:18 am UTC (link)

I'm risking misrepresenting spo0nman here, but I had a live discussion with him about this. I think part of what his post didn't clearly communicate was that there's a sense of 'value' attached with the goods being consumed and what you've mentioned clearly figures in his evaluation. When he says 'hard work' he doesn't just mean physical or mental labour but the entire notion of whether the business provider has done enough to provide him the perceived value. Also, as seen in the disagreement on Subway's perceived value between bluesmoon and me, there is no universal standard for value judgment. It's all personal.

What spo0nman is trying to say is that he's ended up spending a lot of money on things that don't even bring him enough perceived value. That's a real problem. It's a problem that many, including me, have to varying extents. It's about not caring about the value of the money you have to spend and spending it in ways that personally even you don't find judicious when you look back at it.

I spend unreasonable amounts of money to escape from problems or to find happiness in acquisition of something new, irrespective of whether it's even desirable. I've been defaulting on my credit card payments for the last five months simply because I feel too lazy to drop the cheque before the due date. I've bought clothes that I'll probably not wear even once. I've given exorbitant amounts of money to fraudulent auto-rickshaw drivers just because I didn't 'feel like' asking for the prepaid taxi counter. I think spo0nman is talking about a similar problem that at the end means that he's wasting his money on things that don't bring him sufficient value, whether it be real or perceived.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

kingsly
2008-03-11 07:26 pm UTC (link)

Yeah I kind of figured it was something like that after reading his comment above..

It's the prevalent theme in Bangalore, shit at exorbitant rates.

Reminds me of what I felt after moving from Hyderabad to Coimbatore(1995). The kind of stuff I liked to eat was so much cheaper and tastier in Hyderabad. And never felt I was getting my money's worth.

But every city I've moved to since then has been much more expensive than Coimbatore, but I've rarely felt ripped off.

The only time I've really thought about the costs in Bangalore was in 2006, a ~3 week trip to Delhi,Dharamsala,Srinagar,Kargil,Leh (including 4 flights).. cost me approx. what I spend regularly in Bangalore.(Fuzzy maths since I didn't pay for food/acco/trans in most of Kashmir. But it was much cheaper than I anticipated such a long trip to cost.)

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	praveenkumarg 2008-03-10 06:50 am UTC (link)
	Ah! I am one of those who spend judiciously. Doesn't mean less or more but according to the situation and will. Its good to be cautious and check on your spending. I am against making one's finances public. No point. (Reply to this)

	tariquesani 2008-03-10 07:19 am UTC (link)
	If you want you can publish it - Indians do have a mindset where they do not like to reveal exact financial details of their income/expense (even when they pay all the taxes properly) - it would be an interesting experiment.... (Reply to this)

	use %ages ilunatech 2008-03-10 09:42 am UTC (link)
	Change your expense on each item to be a %age instead of the actual figure. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	Re: use %ages fox2mike 2008-03-10 03:42 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah, my thoughts exactly. %ages are cool. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: use %ages

sharninder
2008-03-10 05:00 pm UTC (link)

%ages, hmm .. the key to making all numbers look cooler and easier to grasp :-)

Btw, I definitely think you should keep a tab of where you spend your money. I've been doing it for the last two years (!!), and knowing where I spend my money hasn't made me spend lesser money but I atleast know where its going and I atleast have a sense of the importance of money, which I believe I didn't have before I started keeping tab. I even manage to invest much more money now than I ever managed earlier (in %age terms :-) ).

So, the answer is, you should go through with this exercise but you do not need to disclose the actual numbers.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	sabiokap 2008-03-10 05:06 pm UTC (link)
	It's surprising that this enlightenment is dawning on us at around the same time. Though I have no intention of making any data public :-P (Reply to this)

	anomalizer 2008-03-13 05:58 pm UTC (link)
	The last time I felt something like this; I decided to stop buying watches. (Reply to this)

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